We had the opportunity to speak with a Dota 2 legend — Danil “Dendi” Ishutin, who has captivated fans worldwide. In an exclusive interview for Bo3.gg, the esports player reminisced about the start of his career, his time with Natus Vincere, discussed the creation of B8 Esports, the current state of the organization, and evaluated the current state of Dota 2.

I'd like to talk a bit about your career in general. Let's go back to the distant years of 2006–2008 when it all began. How was it? How did your esports story start?

How did it all begin? Like most at the time: I was going to computer clubs since childhood, around the age of 10 or 11. Then Warcraft III came out, although I played the first two versions of Warcraft a bit as well. The club had one key for everyone, and there was no internet at home yet, so everyone played through one account on different servers — Europe, Asia, America. I didn't understand the difference in pings back then; I just logged in and played.

Then custom maps started appearing, and I played all the custom maps one after another. Around that time, I got a decent internet connection, albeit a night one — from midnight to 7 a.m. It was a tough period: I was still going to school, my parents would turn off the lights, take away the cables — there were all sorts of stories.

Eventually, I stumbled upon DotA. I saw it was already being played at a professional level. Before that, I followed StarCraft and attended a few Warcraft tournaments in Lviv.

Later, I discovered international tournaments where teams from different countries like the USA, Russia, and Sweden were already competing. But Ukraine wasn't on that list, so I went looking for a Ukrainian forum and found one. I wrote a big post there. They laughed at me at the time, saying there were no Ukrainian teams in DotA. But thanks to that forum, I got noticed.

Soon after, I met players from Kyiv: Goblak, DkPhobos, Axypa, and Travka. Later, I joined IHCS — at the time, it was the strongest league for Dota players. I tried to break through wherever I could. And when I met the guys, I joined the Dota scene, which was already living esports. We had a team from Lviv that played for a club. At some point, we won a tournament to become the club's team.

Around 2006, we went to another tournament. There were many of them back then, but they offered mice, mousepads, and a bit of money. We came with the Lviv team, beat everyone, won the finals. I remember during the second map they deliberately turned off the lights, so we had to remake the game. But we won again. After that, I was invited to a new team. The lineup included Axypa, Travka, DkPhobos, and Goblak. They found a sponsor — Wolker, and the team became Wolker Gaming. We were paid a salary — 1000 hryvnias ($200) a month. At the time, it was very good. I consider this the starting point of my professional career — when you start getting paid, you're a pro. This was around 2006–2007.

What do you remember about your time at DTS? Maybe the second place at ESWC 2010 or third at the World Dota Championship that year? Or the bootcamps in Dnipro?

This period was very long. It wasn't just limited to 2010. It seems it all started in 2007 and lasted until 2010, with a break when I left DTS and then returned. We had many lineups and very different results.

Honestly, it's hard to recall any big achievements. Real success came at the end of that period. That's when we really looked strong.

Before that, the lineups were constantly changing — someone would join, someone would leave. At some point, I even went to ks.int because I didn't like that the team wasn't practicing, and the players weren't too interested in results. Then I returned. Overall, over three years — or maybe more — there was a lot. But by 2010, we really reached a global level. I believe we were in the top 3 in the world then. If you don't count China — we basically won against everyone.

So overall, was this period positive for you?

Of course. I don't think there are completely negative experiences. I learned a lot, played with great guys: Light of Heaven, NS, Dread, Goblak, Artstyle, DkPhobos, and Axypa. They all left a good mark. It was a beneficial time.

Tell us about your transition to Dota 2. How challenging was it after DotA?

For me — very easy. I was one of those who played the most matches in Dota 2 during the beta tests. We got the keys right after signing the NDA, and I was really at the top in terms of matches played. No one forced me — I just sat and played with constant ping on non-European servers.

The problem was elsewhere: other guys saw Dota 2 and... were disappointed. It looked raw. The graphics were weak, the gameplay was unusual, many things worked differently. Instead of practicing, they would turn off Dota 2 and go play DotA, CS, or something else. So those legends that we were the best prepared for TI1 — complete nonsense. We played maybe 6-7 maps against other teams during the bootcamp before the tournament — and that's it.

But this wasn't an issue for you?

Not at all. Dota 2 back then was just DotA with a limited hero pool. 30 or 35 heroes at release. We immediately started testing what worked, what strategies could be used, what was strong. So the adaptation was elementary. Details like inventory or hotkeys — that's all trivial, you quickly get used to it.

When you found out about the first The International with a prize pool of $1,600,000 — was there an understanding that Dota 2 would become a big game?

No. At that time, no one believed we would actually be paid that money. There had already been stories where prize money wasn't paid out, or it was delayed for years. A tournament for $30,000 was already considered something incredible. And here — a million? It was unreal.

So many had the position: "Until I see the money — I won't believe it." Dota 2 still looked very raw, but they were working hard on it — people couldn't believe it before the tournament started, but during it, they believed and tried their best.

At the time when you were transitioning to Dota 2, did you communicate with foreign players? How was their adaptation?

Listen, we knew many from the DotA days. Almost everyone who came to the first The International was already familiar — at least by nicknames, tournaments, pubs. But there wasn't deep communication back then. And no one particularly shared thoughts like: "I came just to see if they'll pay the money or not." But I'm sure — before coming to the tournament, many didn't believe in the reality of this story.

The same invite to the Dota 2 beta test only came after signing the NDA. If some players or teams didn't sign the document on time — they might get the keys later. That's already a minus in training. And some weren't in a hurry at all — like, "let's see what it is first." Plus technical issues, internet, computers — the situation was very different across regions.

But then rumors started that Na’Vi won because you trained the longest.

That's complete nonsense. These rumors were spread deliberately after we won — to devalue the victory. A standard media story: you need to find an explanation for why someone won, without acknowledging that the team is simply stronger.

In reality, we played literally a few maps against other teams before the tournament — 6 or 7. That's all we had. There was no secret bootcamp or months of preparation. We just quickly invested in the game, quickly adapted — and that's it.

How did you perceive the fact that the prize pool was $1,600,000?

Well, listen, in 2011 it sounded like fantasy. At that time, even a tournament for $30,000 was considered unreal, and here — a million? Most just didn't believe that this money even existed. It was something on the edge of fantasy, really.

And only when we arrived at the tournament — a five-star hotel, being treated like a star, escort, top-level organization — that's when everyone realized it was serious. And even if you had doubts before, there, on the spot, you wanted to play your best and win.

What did winning TI1 mean to you personally?

A very pleasant feeling. Like, you know, that lasts for a week. Really. Euphoria, a high. Then you start thinking about what's next. But those few days after the victory were fantastic.

How did other players react?

I don't know exactly. I didn't ask them. I think everyone was happy, but how exactly — I can't say.

Were the prize money paid quickly?

Very quickly. Valve themselves wrote to resolve everything as soon as possible. And honestly, we even delayed the process a bit because we were thinking about the best way to handle it. But in terms of money — everything was prompt and clear.

After winning TI1, there were two more finals — TI2 and TI3. Both times you didn't reach the title. Which of these two tournaments left the worst emotions?

Without a doubt, the third The International. Because we almost won. We led the series 2:1, and even started the last game better. We found a way to win Alliance, but we didn't hold on. It was the most painful loss of my career.

When you're just a step away, when you already see the title — and it slips away, it's harsh. After that, there was real depression. Really, for a week it was very bad. Just like after winning TI1 there was a week of euphoria — here was a week when you didn't want to do anything at all.

From 2014, NAVI's results were getting worse, but fans continued to believe that a "new era" was possible. When did the turning point happen, and everything started going downhill?

I don't think it's that simple. Replacing the best players in the world with someone who potentially could become one is always a big risk. And we weren't receiving equally top players in return. For example, when in 2014 we replaced players. If someone from Alliance joined us [instead of Puppey and Kuroky], we would have replaced the best players in the world with other best players in the world. However, we signed VANSKOR and fng. VANSKOR was then a support for Team Empire, which was in the top 8 or top 12 in the world at that time. And we took a new captain from an online team in Belarus, where he practically hadn't played at a high level. These were risky decisions that didn't work out.

Talking about a new era was possible in 2016 when we assembled a lineup with GeneraL and SoNNeikO. We weren't top 1, but we often took second places, won tournaments. It was a very productive year. We were even the only team that beat the future The International champions in the group stage.

The results of that year weren't worse than in 2013. We just took first places less often. The main problem was that we only lost to OG and Team Liquid, who were, so to speak, our "kryptonite". We could calmly compete with everyone else.

Why does it happen that SoNNeikO constantly leaves teams, even though the lineups with him look promising?

Honestly, I think it would be wrong for me to say anything about SoNNeikO. Even if there's something to say — it's better to ask him directly. But in general, this phenomenon is called a "honeymoon" in a team — when everything is good at first, but then problems arise that need solving.

A team isn't just five players. It's people who have to interact with each other, build relationships. It's like a relationship between a guy and a girl, except there are five of you. And if there's no communication or human skills — it's very hard to stay at the top level.

When SoNNeikO joined us, he wasn't even 18. He's a very good person, an interesting guy, but with a complex character. This also affected the interaction within the team.

In 2018, you were benched. Was this a club decision or mutual?

It's simple. I wasn't ready to become a captain. They asked me if I wanted to do it. At that time, a captain was a support position, a certain role in the team. I wasn't ready for it. The lineup had to be built around the captain, and finding new players was difficult. Maybe if I had waited, they would have built a new roster with me, but I wasn't doing anything for it myself.

What were your overall feelings after seven years with NAVI?

I always worked to be the best player for my captains. It's very important to implement the captain's vision in the game. It's not as simple as it seems. You have to work on it.

There are players who develop their captain skills. But it doesn't happen overnight or by pressing a button. Some get it right away, while others have to work on it for a long time.

It wasn't really disappointing. Partly it was my decision too. I could have agreed to become a captain, and the lineup would have been built around me. So I can't say it was a big disappointment for me.

After that, you started streaming and then unexpectedly announced the creation of your organization B8. How did you come to this?

The period when I wasn't playing, I spent on improving myself as a player, captain, and a person who could lead a team. I worked a lot on this. I decided it was time to do something of my own. I wanted to create a place for people who supported me — a sort of new home.

I didn't see any sense in joining other lineups. I wanted the ability to make decisions independently, to build everything my way.

When B8 had a Dota 2 roster, what role did you play besides being a player?

At first, I did everything possible and impossible. It was very hard and probably unwise, but normal for a start. I arranged scrims, was a manager, coach, captain, drafter — I did literally everything.

Over time, people appeared who helped and took on some responsibilities.

What are the global goals for B8 in the future?

They were and remain: to break into tier-1 in the disciplines where we have lineups, to create projects around esports. I've been in this sphere since its inception. We made a breakthrough in our time by winning The International, and I want to continue investing love into esports through the organization. I just believe that in the long run, it's the most effective.

Currently, you have a fairly successful CS2 team. But if we go back to Dota 2 — attempts to assemble a strong lineup haven't been successful. Why?

It's a matter of trust and resources. The credit of trust always decreases with each loss. Just like in NAVI at one time. And resources — they're not always available. I did everything I could with what I had. I squeezed the maximum. And I don't regret it one bit.

Since April 2024, B8 hasn't had an active Dota 2 roster. Why did you leave these attempts?

Assembling a young mix isn't a problem. But I don't have that desire at the moment. There have already been many options — with young, not-so-young, different players. But it always takes a lot of time and doesn't guarantee stability. Plus — resources. After the start of the full-scale war, everything became much more complicated. If not for the war — maybe everything would have been different.

Is a return to Dota 2 planned for B8?

People often ask. But right now there's simply no one to assemble a lineup from. All the same players who have been playing for a long time. And new ones are very hard to find. Once we played not for money, but to become the best in the world. Today that's rare. Most players only think about salary or use you as a springboard. There are very few who are passionate about the idea.

When will we see Dendi on the professional Dota 2 scene again?

In theory, a comeback is possible, but assembling a team is very difficult. It all comes down to two factors: desire and resources. If there's a desire and the ability to invest resources into it — then it's realistic.

It seems like you're close to ending your playing career. Is that the case?

No, it's not. I play Dota 2 every day. Age for me is not an indicator. Even when we were 24, Alexander Kokhanovsky came to us and said that after 25 years it's over, reactions aren't the same. But that's all a myth. Liquid won The International with an average player age of 28.

In Dota 2, reaction isn't as important as in CS. Here it's all about thinking, calculating situations ahead. So I believe there are no age restrictions for Dota 2.

Have you thought about gathering young players around you?

It's hard to find young players who are truly passionate about the game and not just thinking about salary. If you know at least two such players — let me know, I'd be grateful.

Another problem is that now young players who play well and have a high rank often go into streaming instead of professional teams.

That's the reality. People don't want results — they want stability and money. And it's understandable because you can only earn good money in a team that's in the top 8 in the world — that's just 40 players. And there are thousands of contenders for this spot.

Currently, the B8 roster in CS looks probably the strongest in the club's history. What are the expectations from the team?

We've already had two attempts to qualify for a major. Once we were going with a 2:0 record and just had to win one match, but it didn't work out. It would have been a colossal boost not only for the players but for the organization as well.

But I'm very happy for the guys. They're doing great. B8 has come a long way, the roster has changed many times. The way they play now — it's cool. I constantly follow them, support them.

Our main task now is to qualify for a major. And then show ourselves there and establish ourselves at the tier-1 level. We're very close to this.

So you think it should work out this time?

I think so. The guys are working, they have a lot of energy. A little luck — and everything will be fine. I hope, with the third attempt, we'll definitely get lucky.

Let's go back to Dota 2 itself. A big patch 7.38 was recently released. What are your impressions of the changes?

Honestly, it was long-awaited, but it wasn't as big as everyone thought. In economic terms, little has changed, spots were just moved to other places. Everything is built around hero balance — it shapes the meta.

As for rivers — an interesting idea, but it hardly affects the game. Except that a hero running away along the river can escape a bit further. The courier also runs faster along the river — and that's it.

Is there anything in this patch that you liked or disliked?

Now everyone is given a lot of things for survival — neutral items, bonuses, health, gold. This greatly blurs the skill difference between players. It's become harder to just take and dominate the lane. The game has turned into a maximum team effort. Once you could win solo, now that's very rare.

And here I have a question — if the game has become so team-oriented, why is there even a solo rating? In public games, everyone is silent, each plays for themselves.

Dota 2 is often criticized for Valve's lack of involvement. Do you agree with this?

They've started doing more in terms of events, some passes, storylines. But in Dota 2 itself, there are many issues that need work: the matchmaking system, the lack of punishment for toxic players, rating boosts — all these things have long needed solutions.

Valve could focus more on these aspects rather than cosmetic things.

I'm most concerned about the fact that there are very few new players in Dota 2 now. If you look at open qualifiers for tier-1 tournaments, the number of teams in Western Europe or North America is just laughable. The only more or less alive region is Eastern Europe. Southeast Asia and North America are still holding on a bit, but even there it's weakening. Could Valve change this?

I think they could. They've always worked without marketing, but they could do something for the game's development. It feels like all efforts are thrown at Steam because it's the main business for Valve, not Dota 2.

What would you change in Dota 2 if you were given full carte blanche?

Honestly, I'm not sure if it's possible to bring Dota 2 back to its previous level of popularity. But some things I would definitely change.

Name the top 3 things you would do first.

Firstly, I would seriously work on balance. Once Dota 2 was slower, there wasn't such a strong comeback system, and it allowed you to really pull the game solo. You invested time in skill development — and the game rewarded you for it. It provided immense satisfaction.

Now the situation is different — even if you play perfectly, you can still lose due to circumstances. This demotivates players.

Secondly, if there were resources, I would launch aggressive marketing and create a proper system for newcomers to help them integrate into the game.

Thirdly, I would create a complete league system for top players. This could be a separate league for the top 500 or top 1000 players with prizes in the form of unique skins that can't be obtained in any other way.

What should this league be like?

It should be a closed system with strict moderation. There should be no place for toxic players, griefers, or people who break things in the game. Everything is clear — there are rules, you break them — you're out.

Every month or every few months, there should be a rotation — the last 100 players drop out, and 100 new ones come in. This would motivate everyone to fight for a place in the league.

Another feature — the draft system. Like it was in old DotA: hero selection goes from a limited pool, not the entire list. This develops the player and teaches them to play different roles, not be narrowly specialized.

Do you think this is realistic for Valve?

Considering they add things like Double Down that only spoil matchmaking, I don't think so. I immediately wrote that this Double Down thing is complete nonsense. Because ratings just started artificially inflating each other.

The rating inflated to absurdity — now top-1 is already 17,000 MMR, whereas before it was 7-10 thousand.

Let's compile a small list of mid heroes in the current patch.

Listen, it will be hard for me to do this because my rating isn't high right now. Different heroes work at different ratings. Plus, it's very hard for me to play on stream — due to the focus from players. Not all heroes that would work under normal conditions work for me.

But I can name heroes I'm comfortable playing mid. They are Tinker, Dragon Knight, and probably Puck.

How do you feel about Valve canceling the DPC system? For me, it made the scene more structured and similar to classic sports.

DPC had its downsides. It was hard to plan time, hard to prepare. You spend a month at bootcamp, constantly playing matches every 3-4 days. It's physically and mentally tough.

You don't have time to properly prepare for a tournament or rest — the next season starts immediately. And because of this, other tournaments just didn't have a chance to find a place in the calendar.

Now players just travel for money, play for themselves and their benefit. Many are lazy in interacting with the community. There's very little work with fans, no hype, extremely little content around competitions. This also affects the engagement and interest of new and old players in the game itself.

The main problem is the state of the tier-2 and tier-3 scenes. Previously, there was at least a system that gave tier-2 and tier-3 teams a chance to break into tier-1. Now that's gone. And that's very bad.

In CS, everything works much better. The scene is on its feet, there's a clear structure, there's a player market, organizations understand how to build a business. In Dota 2, this is completely absent. And no one is working on it.

You recently won a tournament in Warcraft. How did you even get into a Warcraft tournament? It was very unexpected to see you on the participant list.

It all started back in December when a server for the 20th anniversary of World of Warcraft with hardcore mode was released. There was a guild OnlyFangs that gathered many streamers and content creators. I wrote to them and was invited too. We played, went on raids, got to know many people.

After this story ended, Grubby decided to organize a tournament among his friends. I was invited too.

You didn't lose a single match in the tournament. How difficult was it?

I wouldn't say it was easy. I prepared. I decided for a challenge not to take elves, which I used to play, but chose humans — a race I had never touched. I trained for two weeks, watched all my replays, analyzed them, and had coaches help me. It was difficult, but enjoyable.

What were the emotions from winning?

It was very cool to win and share the joy with the viewers.

If invited again — would you go?

Such a format is very cool for the viewer. It's a whole story: training, progress, matches, intrigue. It's really interesting to watch. But if it's about some serious pro-tournament — no, let the hardcore players play there.

Lastly, let's assemble your dream team from former teammates. You're on mid. Who else?

Position 5 — Puppey. Position 4 — KuroKy. Offlane — Artstyle. Carry — XBOCT.

Do you think such a lineup would have a chance to succeed now?

I think if this five trained for at least a year — the result would be very cool. Half a year is not enough, but a year of stable work — completely realistic.