This interview was done on the 12th September 2024, the night before The International Main Event starts.

Hey, so first off congratulations on the tournament so far - a top 6 already, and a win tomorrow would guarantee you top 3! Let’s kick off by talking about the build-up to TI. I found it quite funny when we knew the TI invites were going to be announced (because there were other events, and regional qualifiers coming up), there was a wide range of thoughts from the community on Team Liquid getting one. Everyone felt that at least three teams deserved an invite, but the community was quite split between three, four, five, or six. Did you feel it was in the bag?

I mean, to be honest, I thought we would get invited for sure. I thought a lot of people kind of forgot the early part of the season where we finished like 2nd and 3rd at the first LANs. Obviously we had some mediocre results as well, but for all the LANs we placed very well, To me, online tournaments have way less value – so I’d be quite surprised if we didn't get invited. I was also a little confused at why people were surprised we were invited but then I also looked at the stats and it kinda made sense we were probably the sixth slot. I personally took a little break in the middle of the year, so I had a very skewed view because I wasn't really part of those tournaments

Right after the invites come out you play in the Riyadh Masters where you beat Spirit and Falcons in the playoff bracket and ultimately place second; then you manage to win the Elite League Season 2. That also was your first LAN win as part of Team Liquid. Was that a relief, finally winning a LAN after all that time?

Yes, my first win with Liquid was ESL One Germany which was online (in 2020). Then a million 2nd places, and then my first LAN win [... at Elite League S2]. It would be super nice to win all the tournaments but it was clear to us that something was missing and we’ve always been trying to fix things. This time we managed to get things right even though we were up against 1win in the final: they were in good shape and they’re one of the harder teams for us to beat. It was a relief, and to me and I think the others too it doesn’t matter that this was a tier 2 event - it was just nice to get past that hurdle. 

If I had to choose between winning one tournament and then being quite bad for the rest of the year; or rather being in the position in which we’re in where we are consistently good - I would take consistency.

What do you think creates that consistency? Is it a very process-driven system, or is it just many people working stepping up at the right times to smooth things out?

We have a lot of resources to smooth things out - we have several coaches, who can each focus on our own ways of making the team feel like a team. It’s possible to win tournaments if you have good ideas and you run with them, but our consistency I think comes also because we have a mindset for longevity. We also stick to our principles even when they don’t work. We avoid overworking ourselves by finding a good balance for how much work we should put in at a time. Like professional athletes, we also focus on peaking at the right time.

Something you touched on was long-term planning - and it’s interesting that the core of your team Insania, Boxi, Micke are the most experienced competitive trio of all time. More than any of TI3 Alliance, or TI7 Liquid-then-Nigma crew, or Yellow Submarine / Team Spirit. When you joined Liquid they were on ~500 games now they’re over 1300 games together. I’m interested in how you gained the trust of that tightly-knit set of players, and if you feel you’ve fully integrated with them now.

In the start it was interesting for me. I had quit Dota as a player and decided to take a different career path. I was ready to move on from Dota and then just stumbled into this team. Initially it was very hard because I was the new guy in a group which had stayed together for so long. Over time we grew closer, and I think one of my strengths is understanding how people feel and when to help them when they don’t feel the best. Much of the trust I’ve gained from them was because I’ve been consistently there for them - the human aspect matters a lot in our team. The ups and downs over the years have created a bond, and at this point I’ve been in the team for so long that when I took a break earlier this year they were texting me saying how much they miss me! 

It’s like a friend group, and in some ways you spend so much time working together that they become your closest friends. There’s a lot of time at events: late nights talking about stuff, or sharing rooms, or that time when I had to stand-in in Lima in 2023. I think that the honesty we have with each other results in us actively working on problems, rather than just pushing those issues aside, or replacing players (how many other teams handle it).This means we’re always looking to push each other forwards instead of playing politics or forming allegiances against each other within the team.  

We’re very lucky to have a team of people who are not just highly skilled at the game but also emotionally intelligent people. I hold them in high regard as human beings.

Despite the long-lasting core, you’ve also had some familiar names come and go over the years. Players like MATUMBAMAN, qojqvq, zai. Do you feel sad to see them when they leave, or do you just trust the scouting process and how it’ll impact the depth of the team? Who does most of the scouting for Liquid?

For the most part it’s Blitz, but in more recent times he’s given me more responsibility to partake in it now that he knows he can trust my judgement. Of course it’s sad when someone goes - they’re some great names in Dota and we’ve learned lots from them as they’ve been part of the team. That said, when we get new players I always feel confident we can make it work. It’s exciting that we’re able to teach things to new players in our team as we are slowly becoming veterans.

One of the big talking points at The International is the dominance of Europe (both Western and Eastern). If Team Spirit won against Xtreme Gaming it’d be 7 Europe teams in the top 8. What do you think caused this, and can we recover from it?

A big cause is the death of the North American and Chinese servers [at the highest level]. Chinese players all play on SEA, North American players all play on Europe - in fact even some South American players are playing on Europe. In America it’s also the cost of living and the esports bubble, with cost cutting. South America is still decently healthy and with talent. It’s quite sad to be honest because I think the Chinese region was really struggling and then Ame and Faith_bian made a little comeback and revitalized the scene - but yeah it’s sad to see those great regions struggle and everyone wants to move to Europe to be with the best. 

To be the best of the best you have to practise with the best. So everyone's slowly starting to get forced into playing in Europe only, and that's only going to make the problem worse. I don't really know what the solution would be, but I think it's just kind of a symptom of the scene just not being as big as it used to be. I’ve spoken to some Chinese players and I hope there will be more teams. I do think that Team Zero, for example, was quite promising and I liked how they played - it’s been very refreshing to see.

I think we also need more tournaments in China, since COVID there’s been just one tournament there and it was right after Riyadh and it overlapped with other events. 

Perhaps a return of something like the G-1 Champions League where you have a lot of Chinese teams and a few international teams joining in?

I agree, and as much as the players hated the DPC, it was amazing for bringing in new talent. Since the DPC got cancelled things look fine for now but in a few years there’s simply not going to be any new players. 

This year’s The International is one of the shortest, both in number of games and duration. You only play 3 teams in the group stage and then you’re essentially into the start of a big Double Elimination bracket. What are your thoughts on this compared to the past?

I miss the big groups. What’s funny is that the first TI I participated in was in Singapore where we played a record number of games at TI. We came in via the Last Chance Qualifier, then groups, then started Upper Bracket but immediately dropped into Lower Bracket and had a long run to the Lower Bracket Finals. Now we’re 8-3 and could win TI with just 7 more games won, which feels absurd. 

There’s also the concept of a metagame that evolves during a longer tournament - something which could happen now after a shorter group stage. Despite a recent patch, do you think we’ve seen it stabilise or is there a lot more to explore?

I’m sure there’ll be some more heroes we haven’t seen yet. I was looking at the stats of which were doing well and which weren’t and the sample size is so tiny so the winrate is meaningless. Luna is a good example, everyone thinks she’s good but she won a lot of games by surprise before people realised she was good and how to handle her. So yeah, the stats are deceiving. 

Okay last question then. Assuming you’re backing yourselves to win two in a row to make it into the Grand Finals, who do you imagine will meet in the Lower Bracket finals - battling each other to see who joins you?

The Falcons/BetBoom series is a very important series. If BetBoom wins it then I think it’ll be them against Tundra in the Lower Bracket Finals. If Falcons win it then I’m not sure between them and Gaimin as to who meets Tundra in the LB Finals.